About us
We have re-grouped the R-L371 kits based on known Y STR clusters combined with terminal SNP results (downstream of R-L371) derived from Big Y 500 testers. Thanks so much to the FTDNA community who have taken the Big Y 500 test to allow us to map out the subclades below R-L371. These terminal SNP results have made it straightforward in most cases to conclusively identify the final subclades below R-L371.
This effort has presently identified a total of 8 subclades under R-L371 (5 direct subclades and 3 subclades tiered in branches from the first layer). One of these 8 subclades is lacking a terminal SNP at present (Modal 1.3), so this group is subject to revision once we have at least two terminal SNPs for this group. We will need at least 2 Big Y 500 tests from this group to identify and map the SNP's downstream of R-FGC30633 for that group.
The identification of 8 total subclades below R-L371 has revealed some unexpected findings. Of the 8 subclades, only 2 subclades can be geographically located within the present borders of Wales at ~95% confidence level. Several subclades very clearly originate from NW England. Several subclades probably originate from NW England. The clade with the oldest presumed terminal SNP has surnames from W. Midlands England (on the Welsh border) and surnames from NW England. Our R-L371 cousins include present day descendants with Scottish surnames, Irish surnames, and several have French-derived surnames.
For a small haplogroup of the R-L21 Atlantic Celts, the R-L371 Celts have a remarkably diverse range of surnames that indicates very deep roots across a wide geographical range: present day Wales, W. Midlands Englnd, NW England, South Scotland, NW Ireland, SW Ireland (presumed), Brittany in France (presumed), and perhaps in Cornwall as well (hypothesis, not verified). For a small population to achieve such a wide geographical range indicates that the initial scattering of a small number of R-L371 males happened many centuries prior to establishment of fixed surnames in the Atlantic Isles.
R-L371 Subclades:
Modal 1.1 R-L371>R-FGC30633+ Old SNP with wide distibution in Central/West/North/Far North Cymry/possibly Brittany/Ireland ca 500 - 1000 AD, possible origin in present day Shropshire
Note: Modal 1.1 has bloodlines from W. Midlands England, NW England, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany (presumed), Wales (not verified)
Modal 1.2 R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC73637 - West Cymry, present day West/Southwest Wales, likely in N Powys, Gwynedd, or Dyfed ca 1000-1200 AD
Modal 1.3 R-L371>R-FGC30633>Unk term SNP - West & poss North Cymry, present day Wales & possibly NE England, spread to Ireland ~700 - 1000 AD. Grouping by Y STR. Need Big Y
Modal 1.4 R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC14575 - North Cymry, present day NW England
Modal 1.5 R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC30632 - North Cymry & possibly West Cymry, present day NW England & possibly Wales
Modal 1.5a R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC30632>R-FGC30631 - North and Far North Cyrmy, present day NW England and South Scotland
Modal 1.5b R-L371>FGC30633>FGC30632>FGC30730 - North Cymry & poss West Cymry, present day NW England & possibly Wales, also Ireland ~700-1000AD
Modal 1.5b1 R-L371>FGC30633>FGC30632>FGC30730>FGC30729 - North Cymry & poss West Cymry, present day NW England & possibly Wales, also Ireland ~700-1000AD
All R-L371 descendants tested to date are also R-FGC30633+. Modal 1.1 is R-FGC30633+ but does not have a downstream terminal SNP, while the other 7 subclades have one or more SNPs downstream of FGC30633.
The broad distribution of surnames and geographic locations indicates that our L371 ancestors were scattered widely during 1) the Roman invasions 44 AD to 60 AD and/or 2) the Irish and Scottish invations 380 AD to 500 AD, 3) the Anglo-Saxon invasions 600 AD to 700 AD, and 4) the Viking invasions ~900 AD.
The Brythonic speaking Celts of Britain in the Iron Age, Roman era, and post-Roman era included Wales, W. Midlands England, NW England, and South Scotland (500 BCE to 600 AD), with Anglo Saxon incursions starting in 600 AD. The Brythonic speaking Celts of these regions referred to themselves as the people of Cymry, and were all distant cousins from various R-L21 and related R1b bloodlines.
It is likely that our L371 ancestors were widely distributed in small populations in Wales, W. Midlands England, NW England, South Scotland, NE Ireland, SE Ireland, and Brittany by 900 AD or earlier. Thus we consider the earlier limits of "Greater Cymry" ca 600 AD when considering the distribution of L371 descendants. The map of Cymry posted on our project page indicates the wide geographical distribution of R-L371 descendants.
We believe that the broad distribution of L371 descendants indicates a genesis from one of the Celtic tribes of Central Cymry. We have studied a variety of data for the Brythonic tribes of Wales and Central Cymry, including the Cornovii, the Silures, the Dobunni, the Ordovices, the Deceangli, the Demetae, and other Celtic tribes of Central Britain. We have studied, considered, and ruled out most of these tribes as inconsistent with present day origins of L371 descendants and related supporting evidence.
We believe that the R-L371 diaspora are the descendants of one patrilineal bloodline from the Cornovii tribe of Midlands England and NW Wales, ca 1500 BCE to 600 AD (under Roman rule from ~45 AD to 380 AD). This would be one patrilineal bloodline of the Cornovii, with a common ancestor somewhere in the timeframe ca 500 BCE to 500 AD.
SNP calculations indicate that the R-FGC30633 mutation was formed about 400 to 500 AD, indicating the Most Recent Common Ancestor born about 400 to 500 AD for all present day R-L371 descendants. However, this is only a calculation, and actual SNP mutation rates are widely documented to vary widely from typical/average mutation rates.
Under this first hypothesis our MRCA would be born ~400 AD, with a reasonably wide distribution in the Cornovii population by 600 AD to 650 AD at the time of the Anglo-Saxon displacements in the West Midlands. In this first hypothesis there will be displacements of FGC30633 descendants during the invasions by:
1) Anglo-Saxons 600 to 700 AD, and
2) Vikings 900 to 1000 AD.
The second, alternative hypothesis dates our MRCA to ~400 BCE, in which case a broad distribution of FGC30633 descendants would be present in the Cornovii population by 45 AD at the time of the Roman sacking of the Cornovii capital at the Wrekin hill fort. In this hypothesis there will be displacements of FGC30633 descendants during the invasions by:
1) Romans 45 to 60 AD,
2) Irish 380 to 500 AD,
3) Scottish 380 to 500 AD,
4) Anglo-Saxons 600 to 700 AD, and
5) Vikings 900 to 1000 AD.
Either hypothesis is feasible based on present studies, but the very wide distribution of surnames and geographical origins suggests a higher probability for the earlier SNP formation date/MRCA of ~500 BCE with the second hypothesis.
As part of the effort to verify our roots in the Cornovii tribe, we have begun similar studies of R-L21+ subclades from Wales and NW England to determine the DNA signatures for neighboring Celtic tribes of Central and West Cymry.
This effort has presently identified a total of 8 subclades under R-L371 (5 direct subclades and 3 subclades tiered in branches from the first layer). One of these 8 subclades is lacking a terminal SNP at present (Modal 1.3), so this group is subject to revision once we have at least two terminal SNPs for this group. We will need at least 2 Big Y 500 tests from this group to identify and map the SNP's downstream of R-FGC30633 for that group.
The identification of 8 total subclades below R-L371 has revealed some unexpected findings. Of the 8 subclades, only 2 subclades can be geographically located within the present borders of Wales at ~95% confidence level. Several subclades very clearly originate from NW England. Several subclades probably originate from NW England. The clade with the oldest presumed terminal SNP has surnames from W. Midlands England (on the Welsh border) and surnames from NW England. Our R-L371 cousins include present day descendants with Scottish surnames, Irish surnames, and several have French-derived surnames.
For a small haplogroup of the R-L21 Atlantic Celts, the R-L371 Celts have a remarkably diverse range of surnames that indicates very deep roots across a wide geographical range: present day Wales, W. Midlands Englnd, NW England, South Scotland, NW Ireland, SW Ireland (presumed), Brittany in France (presumed), and perhaps in Cornwall as well (hypothesis, not verified). For a small population to achieve such a wide geographical range indicates that the initial scattering of a small number of R-L371 males happened many centuries prior to establishment of fixed surnames in the Atlantic Isles.
R-L371 Subclades:
Modal 1.1 R-L371>R-FGC30633+ Old SNP with wide distibution in Central/West/North/Far North Cymry/possibly Brittany/Ireland ca 500 - 1000 AD, possible origin in present day Shropshire
Note: Modal 1.1 has bloodlines from W. Midlands England, NW England, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany (presumed), Wales (not verified)
Modal 1.2 R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC73637 - West Cymry, present day West/Southwest Wales, likely in N Powys, Gwynedd, or Dyfed ca 1000-1200 AD
Modal 1.3 R-L371>R-FGC30633>Unk term SNP - West & poss North Cymry, present day Wales & possibly NE England, spread to Ireland ~700 - 1000 AD. Grouping by Y STR. Need Big Y
Modal 1.4 R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC14575 - North Cymry, present day NW England
Modal 1.5 R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC30632 - North Cymry & possibly West Cymry, present day NW England & possibly Wales
Modal 1.5a R-L371>R-FGC30633>R-FGC30632>R-FGC30631 - North and Far North Cyrmy, present day NW England and South Scotland
Modal 1.5b R-L371>FGC30633>FGC30632>FGC30730 - North Cymry & poss West Cymry, present day NW England & possibly Wales, also Ireland ~700-1000AD
Modal 1.5b1 R-L371>FGC30633>FGC30632>FGC30730>FGC30729 - North Cymry & poss West Cymry, present day NW England & possibly Wales, also Ireland ~700-1000AD
All R-L371 descendants tested to date are also R-FGC30633+. Modal 1.1 is R-FGC30633+ but does not have a downstream terminal SNP, while the other 7 subclades have one or more SNPs downstream of FGC30633.
The broad distribution of surnames and geographic locations indicates that our L371 ancestors were scattered widely during 1) the Roman invasions 44 AD to 60 AD and/or 2) the Irish and Scottish invations 380 AD to 500 AD, 3) the Anglo-Saxon invasions 600 AD to 700 AD, and 4) the Viking invasions ~900 AD.
The Brythonic speaking Celts of Britain in the Iron Age, Roman era, and post-Roman era included Wales, W. Midlands England, NW England, and South Scotland (500 BCE to 600 AD), with Anglo Saxon incursions starting in 600 AD. The Brythonic speaking Celts of these regions referred to themselves as the people of Cymry, and were all distant cousins from various R-L21 and related R1b bloodlines.
It is likely that our L371 ancestors were widely distributed in small populations in Wales, W. Midlands England, NW England, South Scotland, NE Ireland, SE Ireland, and Brittany by 900 AD or earlier. Thus we consider the earlier limits of "Greater Cymry" ca 600 AD when considering the distribution of L371 descendants. The map of Cymry posted on our project page indicates the wide geographical distribution of R-L371 descendants.
We believe that the broad distribution of L371 descendants indicates a genesis from one of the Celtic tribes of Central Cymry. We have studied a variety of data for the Brythonic tribes of Wales and Central Cymry, including the Cornovii, the Silures, the Dobunni, the Ordovices, the Deceangli, the Demetae, and other Celtic tribes of Central Britain. We have studied, considered, and ruled out most of these tribes as inconsistent with present day origins of L371 descendants and related supporting evidence.
We believe that the R-L371 diaspora are the descendants of one patrilineal bloodline from the Cornovii tribe of Midlands England and NW Wales, ca 1500 BCE to 600 AD (under Roman rule from ~45 AD to 380 AD). This would be one patrilineal bloodline of the Cornovii, with a common ancestor somewhere in the timeframe ca 500 BCE to 500 AD.
SNP calculations indicate that the R-FGC30633 mutation was formed about 400 to 500 AD, indicating the Most Recent Common Ancestor born about 400 to 500 AD for all present day R-L371 descendants. However, this is only a calculation, and actual SNP mutation rates are widely documented to vary widely from typical/average mutation rates.
Under this first hypothesis our MRCA would be born ~400 AD, with a reasonably wide distribution in the Cornovii population by 600 AD to 650 AD at the time of the Anglo-Saxon displacements in the West Midlands. In this first hypothesis there will be displacements of FGC30633 descendants during the invasions by:
1) Anglo-Saxons 600 to 700 AD, and
2) Vikings 900 to 1000 AD.
The second, alternative hypothesis dates our MRCA to ~400 BCE, in which case a broad distribution of FGC30633 descendants would be present in the Cornovii population by 45 AD at the time of the Roman sacking of the Cornovii capital at the Wrekin hill fort. In this hypothesis there will be displacements of FGC30633 descendants during the invasions by:
1) Romans 45 to 60 AD,
2) Irish 380 to 500 AD,
3) Scottish 380 to 500 AD,
4) Anglo-Saxons 600 to 700 AD, and
5) Vikings 900 to 1000 AD.
Either hypothesis is feasible based on present studies, but the very wide distribution of surnames and geographical origins suggests a higher probability for the earlier SNP formation date/MRCA of ~500 BCE with the second hypothesis.
As part of the effort to verify our roots in the Cornovii tribe, we have begun similar studies of R-L21+ subclades from Wales and NW England to determine the DNA signatures for neighboring Celtic tribes of Central and West Cymry.