T-Z20002 and the Migration Period / Barbarian invasions

T-BY98240 and the Vandal Tribe

Perhaps, there are several possible human movements that can explain the link between places as separated as South Bohemia, Inner Carniola, Transdanubia, Hessen, Northern Württemberg, Western Asturias and Kabylia but why not the Vandal explanation? The TMRCA of their members also allow this theory, which is ~1900-1700 ybp. This possibility will not be confirmed today but we can keep an eye on it.

The diversity shown with the current managed data, doesn't seems to support the eastern route of the Vandals but it does a perfect match with the western route. A possible explanation is that the original tribe which belonged T-Z20002, likely a Frankish one, joined the Vandals and/or Suebi around Mainz. This is well supported with Hessen being the geographic point with highest diversity of this subclade, well distributed from North to South of the western fringe of Germany and according to YHRD is found to be 0.8% of the samples in Berlin. The samples found in South Bohemia, Transdanubia and Inner Carniola seems closely linked with modern individuals of the Hessen region, this makes difficult to think that belongs to splitted branches left on the migration to the Rin. Anyway, how are structured these branches found in those eastern european places, should be confirmed with NGS tests like BigY.

Arrived to the Iberian Peninsula with the Vandals or the Suebi, is here in the Iberian Peninsula when it starts to match clearly the Vandal pattern of migration. Perhaps some Suebi joined to the Vandals in the Iberian Peninsula or alternatively, part of a Frank tribe joined to the Vandals around Mainz, anyway they are found in modern western Asturias and reach 0.4% of the Asturias samples in YHRD, this points to the Hasdingi as the most likely population destiny in the Iberian Peninsula, perhaps here helped the rejection of the Nicenism.

The presence around Kabylia could be do to two different migration waves, the 1st may match the Vandal migration directly and the other could be due to a 2nd wave from the Iberian Peninsula with the assimilated Vandals to the Muslim territories after their expulsion. This last seems likely due to the finding of I1 and other likely north and central european lineages among the Andalusi refugees.

The unique known incidence of the lineage BY101637 (xBY98240) is found in Sardinia, which is known to be reached by the Vandals. Anyway, the split among both branches is at the most earlier times and this thogether the absence of known incidences on all the way, as can be found on the other early splitted branches, makes difficult to be sure about both lineages reaching together this point of the Mediterranean Sea. The presence into the Island also could be due to any other migration from Europe.

Other west Germanic migrations that ended crossing the Pyrenees: At the 3th century is reported a Frank tribe taking control of the Iberian Peninsula (by Aurelius Victor) and ending by penetrating from Tarraconensis to the African side of the Mediterranean Sea.

T-Y3836 (xY3833) and the Vandal Tribe

Can't be excluded the possibility that T-Y3836(xY3833) followed the same migration pattern as BY98240. The incidence of this group only is known in West Europe but starting from this point, they seems to match the Vandal pattern pretty well. They are found in Champagne (Northeast France), then is restricted to the Western half of the Iberian Peninsula. Also are found members, that can belong to this subclade or to a still unconfirmed subclade between this and Y3833, assimilated among the Berber population of Kabylia. Why should both subclades match this pattern? Between both the TMRCA is ~3500ybp but at the time of the Vandals, TMRCA was just ~1900ybp an rather acceptable time window to still belong to the same tribal alliance and be part or join the Vandals.

T-Y3833 and the Germanic tribes reaching the Iberian Peninsula

The known structure of this human group in the Iberian Peninsula have a TMRCA that match the arrival of the Germanic tribes to the Iberian Peninsula (Migration Period). Following the pattern seen in the other two groups commented, for the possible arrival into the Iberian Peninsula, but lacking of known incidences in the African territories and not well defined those found in "Central Europe" yet, since there are only a couple of candidate lineages, still understudied, but again in Germanic Territories (England and Germany).  Also, a few differences in the geographical distribution along the Iberian Peninsula makes us look for another source population instead of Vandals and allied tribes but this is not conclusive since the Muslim conquest could change the Human landscape of the Peninsula and split some lineages into different directions and then with the Christian conquest, be unrecognizable expanded. Future findings on basally splitted branches in Central Europe will help to build a better picture on the migration path.

At least, Four different Branches belonging to T-Y3833 trace their most recent common ancestor to this time period (according to the YFull age estimations). This is about 1500ybp belonging to the 450 (s.V), this date was preceded by the Suebic-Vandal-Alan invasion 409 and followed by the Visigoth invasion 466 of the Iberian Peninsula. If the calculations are right, any of these two events could benefit the success of the tribe to which belonged T-Y3833 ancestor.

T-Y3782 All downstream lineages ( Religions )

The most common religion found among the members of the different branches of this lineage is Christianism (Lutheranism, Catholicism, Mennonitism and Evangelicalism), which is shared among the members of all known subclades, except for one, which is of Islamic faith

The minoritarian religions found among members of this lineage are: Islamism (along 3 subclades) and Judaism (along 2 subclades).

Sephardic lineages in T-Y3836

The incidences of T-Y3836 (xY3833) in the Sephardic community is absolutly marginal and any NPE or conversion into Judaism should took place very late into the history of Judaism in the Iberian Peninsula.

On the other hand, T-Y3833 is much more common but it still represents a insignificant minority in the Sephardic Community. The most probable scenario is either that the conversion into Judaism took place earlier (or through a NPE event) and that the sharing of a specific elitist social network favored a limited but recurrent influx of T-Y3833 lineages into the local Jewish community. 

The known structure of T-Y3833 among the Jewish community is splitted in two related groups belonging to Y3833 (xY4122). This group only counts with one single individual with NGS results (BigY). All known incidences of Y3833 in the Mediterranean Sea, out of the Iberian Peninsula, belongs to Sephardic refugees of Iberian origins.

It is accepted that the Iberian Peninsula experienced a strong Jewish proselytizing episode at the early centuries of the Middle Ages, which resulted on significant mixed marriages and increasing conversions into Judaism by the Iberian populations. This growing religious competitor, scared the Nicene Christian authorities who ended by enact multiple tough laws to try to stop and reverse its growth. At this time period the whole Christian population don't reached more than ~14% of the Iberian population, remaining most of the population fragmented into their pagan beliefs.

The Arianist Vandals have tolerated better the Jewish populations into their societies than what they tolerated their Nicene Christian harassers, enacting tough laws against the latter. Aside from this we can see correlation between most "Vandal looking" T-Y3782 lineages and those T-Y3782 lineages with insignificant or null converted to Judaism subbranches as well as, and inversely, a correlation with those with increased converted to Islam subbranches. This could tell us something about an earlier Cultural/Social split or perhaps two early diverged tribes.

Known Sephardic structure:

T-Y3833 (xY4122)

DYS635=21 > DYS522=13 > DYS715=22 (xDYS385=15-15)

A) Sephardic lineages in eastern Aegean Sea, Maghreb, Levant and Balkans (refugees that took the Mediterranean route)

DYS635=21 > DYS587=20

B) Assimilated Sephardics among the Ashkenazi population (refugees that took the European route)

Muslim lineages in T-BY98240 and Y3836 (x3833)

The conversion to the Islam faith could took place in the Mauretania Caesariensis, around the Kabylia region, or/and in the Iberian Peninsula. 

T-Y3782 (xZ20002)

Only two lineages are known as belonging to previous splitted branches, before the formation of Z20002. The closer lineage to T-Z20002 belongs to a not Arab Tribal Class lineage found in the Persian Gulf. The most distant to T-Z20002 belongs to a Northern English lineage from Lancashire that seems to be deep rooted in Yorkshire during the Middle Ages. This last lineage have origins in Boulogne, Flanders s. XI

Participation in advanced T-Y3782 research:

· 1 FTDNA customers belonging to T-Y3782 (xZ20002) is Big Y-700 tested.

· 3 FTDNA customers belonging to T-BY71829 are Big Y-700 tested.

· 1 FTDNA customer belonging to T-Y3836* is YElite tested.

· 5 FTDNA customers belonging to T-Y3833 are Big Y-700 tested.

· 5 of these FTDNA customers are participating on the YFull tree development.

Which results are getting 23andMe and MyHeritage/AncestryDNA (via CladeFinder) customers?

All T-Y3782 members who tests in any of both companies are receiving T-CTS2214 (v5) or T-M70 (v4 and v3) and T-L208 respectively. So, If you match any geographic place and have any of these results (specially T-CTS2214 which means Z709 negative in almost all cases), you can expect to carry the direct paternal lineage T-Y3782 and are welcome to transfer results to FTDNA and join our Project.

Please enter the geographical origin of your earliest known direct paternal ancestor. Go to your name at the right corner, click "Account settigs" -> "Genealogy" -> "Earliest known ancestor" and enter the CORRECT PLACE NAME or the longitude/latitude data. Thank you :)

Donations to our Project's General Fund, see the link to your left, are very welcome. Please enter "T-Atlantic" in the "Surname Project" line. We want to thank all people who have donated for their generosity. All funds collected are only used to order marker upgrades or deep-clade haplogroup tests for members whose DNA is of special interest to the project, but who cannot afford to pay the complete cost of the test.