RIb-L23+ THORNTONs of West Riding, Yorkshire, England

Group J:  Let me introduce myself as a new co-administrator of the Thornton Y-DNA Project as of September 1, 2014. My name is Kathy Johnston and my maternal line has a Yorkshire UK Thornton in it. I specialize in the following Y-DNA STR signature 12-24-14-11-11-11-12-12-12-13-13-29 or similar.  I have no close Thornton male relatives. That means I have to go out and recruit Thorntons from Mirfield, Huddersfield and other parts of West Riding, England. Once the word gets out that we have a very unique and unusual Y-DNA motif, Thornton males are often motivated to get tested. It is also important to use Y-DNA to rule out relationships with other nearby UK Thorntons.

Those of you who are already members of Group J, welcome! So far we have several participants who can actually trace their origins to the region surrounding the Roman Fort of Slack, an archaeological site that dates back to the Roman invasion of England near the city of Huddersfield.  My current hypothesis is that we descend from the Breuci tribe. When I found my first Thornton cousin (who had already tested with another company that no longer tests Y-DNA) years ago, I noticed that the closest matches were with Croatians. This particular R1b-L23 subclade is not native to England but is closer to an Eastern European or a Southern European type. The goal is to uncover the rich history of this group.

By forming DNA sub-clusters through upgrades and deep clade testing, we may be able to make more distant connections. This particular group has been in a localized region of England for a very long time - the most common recent ancestor could date back several centuries. We need someone to do a full Y-DNA test to discover new and distinct markers. Subgroup J folks may want to join the R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) Project at

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new and follow the current recommendations of administrators there. With further testing, we may find we are part of the CTS9219+ group. I would recommend at least testing this marker. Citizen scientists are making major contributions to the Y-DNA phylogenetic tree of mankind.

Deep Clade Analysis
Except for L23+ and L51- results, deep clade analysis has not been carried out very far on our Group J Thorntons. The following SNP results might be expected based on similar groups:

M269+ / L23+/ CTS7822+/ CTS9219+

Members are encouraged to upgrade to 67 markers which will become more important as additional Thorntons from Yorkshire are tested.

If your distant ancestors came to the United States or Canada and you match Group J, then you are not related to any of the more common Virginia Thornton immigrants on the Y-DNA line. My immigrant ancestor was Thomas Thornton (b. 1782) who married Sarah Dransfield. Our group settled first in Dumfries or Galt (now part of Cambridge) Ontario Canada after a brief stop in New York, then migrated to the United States through Wisconsin. I consider myself to be a descendant of these Northern-Midwest U.S. Thorntons. Feel free to contact me at 

kjohns7900@aol.com if you have any questions or concerns about Group J.

I1-P109 THORNTONs: The Virginia-A Group

Early Colonists & Native Brits

• “The Gloucester Immigrant” William THORNTON [b. c1622] first appears in the records of York County, Virginia on October 18, 1641 when he was listed as a Headright on a Land patent application by William Prior. William is seen again on May 11, 1646 when he obliged himself on paper to care for the cattle of John Liptrot.  Records suggest that Immigrant William was baptized in Chorley Parish in 1622, the son of Roger THORNTON of Ryvington, Lancashire.
• Luke THORNTON [b. c1652] first appears in the records in Westmoreland Co. on March 21, 1671/2 when he was assigned to inventory the estate of Thomas Foster, and on Sept 26, 1677 when he records an ear mark for livestock.  Boddie describes the relationship between Immigrant William and Luke as follows:

“William Thornton was a near neighbor of the Luke Thornton family, for on Aug. 7, 1717 he and two sons of Luke Thornton, Luke, Jr. and Thomas, were fined for not clearing the roads near their plantations (O Bk. 7, p. 187), and on Aug. 1, 1716 William Thornton was security to Luke Thornton, Jr. in a suit against the latter by Sir Marmaduke Beckwith (Ibid., p. 29). The above slight indications of relationship in Richmond Co. between the Luke Thornton family and the Gloucester Co. Thorntons…”

Boddie concludes this paragraph with the following statement:

“Luke may even have been a fourth son of the original William Thornton of Gloucester, though there is no proof of this.”

While Luke is thought by some to be the son of Immigrant William (again, no proof exists of this), others believe that Luke was the grandson of Henry THORNTON and Martha FLOUD of Middlesex, possibly a descendant of John THORNTON of Cheshire.

• Immigrant Henry THORNTON [b. 1662] was described by Boddie as “possibly … a younger brother of Luke Thornton or William Thornton, treated in Parts One and Two.”  Here, Boddie is referring to “William Thornton of Old Rappahannock Co., Va.,” not the Gloucester Immigrant William THORNTON.  Henry died in Richmond County, VA c1695.
• Dr. Thomas Thornton [b. c1685] was a physician in Lancaster County, VA, and died in Lancaster Co. in 1741.

Today, the descendants of these colonists are numerous and widespread in the United States.

• Northamptonshire THORNTONs:  Some participants in the Virginia-A THORNTON group live in Britain and have traced their lineage back to the southwestern corner of Northamptonshire, in the area surrounding Newnham, home of the infamous barrister Thomas THORNTON, the grandson of John THORNTON of Newnham.  The patriarchs for the Northants group include:

• George THORNTON [b. c1666/Canons Ashby, Northants]
• John THORNTON [b. c1687/Maidford, Northants]

The Northamptonshire THORNTONs are the only native Brits that have been located in present day Britain and confirmed to harbor the I1-P109 Y-chromosome characteristic of the Virginia-A group.  What makes this intriguing is that the Coat of Arms for some THORNTONs of Cheshire, Northamptonshire, Middlesex, Hertfordshire, Yorkshire, Ulster (Ireland), and Cavan (Ireland) are identical:

“Argent on a bendgules, three escarbuncles Or.”

In The History of the County Palatine and City of Chester by George Ormerod the THORNTONs of Thornton-le-Moors are reported to originate from Peter, the Secretary of RandleBlundeville, Earl of Chester.  Whether the Y-chromosome common to the Virginia-A Group represents that originating from Peter Le Clerc de Thorneton is completely unknown, but it certainly would go a very long way to explaining the wide distribution and homogeneity of this group.

The Virginia-A BigY Project

In June 2014 the Virginia-A BigY Project was undertaken.  The BigY test is a “Next Generation DNA sequencing” test based on High Throughput Sequencing (HTS) technology commercialized by Illumina Corp.  The aim of the BigY test is to determine the primary sequence of approximately 10 million-basepairs of DNA in the non-recombining region of the Y-chromosome that has not been widely studied in population genetics. 

• So the first goal of the Virginia-A BigY Project was to test several carefully chosen people to identify mutations (i.e., SNPs and STRs) that are specifically and uniquely associated with the various lineages currently in the Virginia-A group (e.g., William, Luke, Henry, and Northamptonshire).
• The second goal of the Virginia-A BigY Project was utilize this information to design specific tests utilizing precise SNPs and STRs to help people obtain a better understanding of their ancestry.  In this way a new Virginia-A THORNTON could focus on testing for specific SNPs and STRs associated with a particular lineage and maximize the information generated while minimizing cost. 

By March 2015 a total of 10 Virginia-A THORNTONs had been tested with the BigY test.  These included:

• Immigrant William:  Two documented descendants of Immigrant William; one that descended from his son William2 [b. 1649/VA], and the other from his son Francis [b. 1651/VA].
• Luke:  Four documented descendants of Luke; two participants that descended from his son Luke2 [b. 1676/VA], and the other two from his son Mark1 [b. 1686].  One of these participants descended from Rev. Dozier THORNTON [b. 1755/VA].
• Northamptonshire:  Four documented descendants from Northants THORNTONs; two participants that descended from George THORNTON [b. c1666/Canons Ashby, Northants], and the other two from John THORNTON [b. 1686/Maidford, Northants].  Three of these participants were born, raised and currently live in the UK.

FTDNA has analyzed the data generated by the BigY test, but we have also had the data analyzed by Yfull (www.yfull.com) and Full Genomes Corp. (www.fullgenomes.com).  A series of unique SNPs were identified and independently confirmed with testing at YSeq (www.yseq.net).  From this information a custom SNP panel (the “VA-A THORNTON Family Panel”) was designed by YSeq and used to test the majority ofthe Virginia-A group. 

Summary of BigY Results

The significant findings of the Virginia-A BigY Project include:

1. A new major subgroup of P109 within the S7660 -> S14887 group defined by the SNP Y3663.
2. Approximately 19 SNPs that differentiate the Virginia-A group from other members of Y3663.
3. 4 SNPs unique to all descendants of both Immigrant William and Luke THORNTON (the “William/Luke” SNPs).
4. 1 SNP unique to all descendants of Immigrant William THORNTON [b. c1622] (the “William SNP”).
5. 1 SNP unique to all descendants of Luke THORNTON [b. c1652] (the “Luke SNP”).
6. 2 SNPs unique to all descendants of the Northamptonshire group (the “Northamptonshire SNPs”).
7. 2 SNPs unique to all descendants of George THORNTON [b. c1666/Canons Ashby, Northants] (the “George SNP”).
8. 1 SNP unique to all descendants of John THORNTON [b.  c1687/Maidford, Northants] (the “John SNP”).
9. A novel Virginia-A group descending from Thomas THORNTON [b. c1780/VA].  Efforts are underway to identify novel SNPs associated with this group.

Implications of the BigY Test Results

All members in the THORNTON Virginia-A group have a common ancestor some time during the last 800-900 years.  At this point there are three main groups in Virginia-A: (i) William/Luke; (ii) Northamptonshire, and (iii) Thomas.  Both the William/Luke and Northamptonshire groups have two subgroups, while the Thomas group only has one member at this point.  Other significant findings include:

a)    Luke was NOT William’s son

We have confirmed that William’s descendants harbor the William SNP (Y6220) but not the Luke SNP, and that Luke’s descendants containthe Luke SNP (YP1012) but not the William SNP. Because William and Luke each have independent mutations, and since mutations accumulate from father to son, Luke could not have been William’s son because William’s mutation did not accumulate in Luke.   The only question that remains is “how far back do we have to go to find the common ancestor of William and Luke?” The options include:

1. They may have had the same father, but this would require that the respective mutations arose in each son (i.e., Y6220 and YP1012)… this would be highly unlikely, not impossible, but highly unlikely;
2. their father’s may have been brothers (i.e., they had the same grandfather), or
3. we may have to go back 100 years or so to find their common ancestor (e.g., they had the same 2X-great-grandfather).

We will probably never know who that was, or whether William and Luke knew of their paternal connection, but the probability that their common ancestor lived some time in 1500s is extremely high.

b)   Immigrant Henry – YP1012+

Several participants that descend from Wiley THORNTON [b.1785/VA] are positive for the Luke SNP (YP1012+).  Wiley is believed to be a descendant of Immigrant Henry via his son Roger [b. 1687]. It has been proved that Wiley’s father was John [b. 1718], but it is not clear that this John was Roger’s son (although Roger did have a son John [b.1718]).  This finding is consistent with a close familial relationship between Luke and Henry.

c)    Other Significant Findings

There are several other groups that have unique STR markersand that have tested with these new SNPs. They include:

o  Samuel [b. 1755/Matthews Bluff, SC] / DYS643=13: Positive for Luke SNP (YP1012+).

o  James [b.1760] / DYS726=13: Positive for Luke SNP (YP1012+).

o  Luke2/Mark1:  Luke2 [b. 1676] and Mark1 [b. 1686] were two of Luke’s sons.  All descendants of Luke2 and Mark1 were positive for the Luke SNP (YP1012+).

- The STR CDYb: Luke2’s descendants harbor the modal state of this STR: CDYb=36; theCDYb=35 mutation arose in Mark1.  This appears to be a significant, differentiating STR of Mark1’s descendants;however, this is a relatively unstable STR so caution must be applied whenusing this STR to establish ancestry.

- Spartanburg A:  These participants trace back to Spartanburg, SC.  They were all CDYb=35 (i.e., Mark1’s descendants).  Some of these participants were also DYS19=16. Participants positive for DYS16=19 descend from John2 [b. 1765].

- Spartanburg B:  There was a second group in Spartanburg; they were Luke2’s descendants (i.e., CDYb=36).  This group descends from David William THORNTON [b. 1805].

o  Francis [b. 1651/VA] / DYS589=13: Positive for William SNP (Y6220+).

Significant Virginia-A SNPs

Below is the summary of SNP-names, positions on theY-chromosome (ChrY:#), and themutation (e.g., “Ref” indicates the expected reference nucleotide at this position, whereas “Alt” indicates the alternate nucleotide observed at this position in these participants).  The labs that identify SNPs get to name them (the letters indicate the laboratory that first identified them).  Where there are two names at one position it simply means that two labs identified that mutation at that position at approximately the same time.  SNPs may also be “phyloequivalent.”  This simply means that they these SNPs are equivalent with respect to differentiating a group of people.  Someday we may find people that are positive for one SNP but not the other SNP for a given group, but at this time in history they can’t be used to segregate groups or participants.

The DYS-455=9 & YCAIIb=20 STR-mutations

The EDMUNDSON-GRANT-THORNTON group contains the unusual STR-mutations DYS455=9 and YCAIIb=20.  It is not unique to these surnames, but these were definitive mutations in recent history, well prior to the adoption of surnames, but representing perhaps 1% of the entire P109 Haplogroup.  The table below looks at the distribution of surnames associated with P109 and DYS455=9.

The SNPs below will parse the P109 and DYS455=9 people.  As more participants with DYS455=9 are analyzed by the BigY test this list will begin to subgroup the participants.  For example, while this group of SNPs will always be common to Virginia-A THORNTON participants, only some of these SNPs will be common to other surnames.

Virginia-A Subgroup SNPs

The SNPs below are common to the respective subgroup within Virginia-A.  As additional groups are identified this list will expand (e.g., when the Thomas subgroup is analyzed additional SNPs may be added to this list). 

New Terminal SNPs for I1-P109 Virginia-A THORNTONs

The most significant findings of the Virginia-A BigY Project are the identification of new terminal SNPs connected with the various patriarchs of the I1-P109 Virginia-A THORNTONs.  The power of these SNPs cannot be understated: if you are in the Virginia-A group, and you test positive for one of these SNPs, you can rest assured that you descend from that lineage.  If you are an I1-P109 THORNTON, and you are negative for all of these terminal SNPs, you represent a novel group.

Testing for Future I1-P109 Virginia-A THORNTON Participants

All future Virginia-A THORNTONs should simply order the 25-marker STR test from FTDNA.  This will determine if a match to the Virginia-A THORNTON group exists. Individuals with a Genetic Distance ≤3 with the Virginia-A group over 25-markers, and STR values of DYS455= 9 & YCAIIb=20 are legitimate I1-P109 Virginia-A THORNTONs.  The values at DYS-455/YCAIIb should be weighted more heavily than Genetic Distance, and the value at DYS455 must be 9.  If you are a Virginia-A THORNTON you should proceed with testing with the “VA-A THORNTON Family Panel” SNP test at YSeq (www.yseq.net).  This panel will be updated periodically as new SNPs are identified.  The results should place new participants in one of the patriarch groups.  In the rare instance where a new participant is negative (ancestral) for any of the terminal SNPs immediately above, then the participant should seriously consider the taking the BigY test to characterize new terminal SNPs in for this project and inclusion into future versions of the VA-A THORNTON Family Panel.  The current status of SNP testing outcome based on patriarch is shown below.

The predicted results of SNP testing based on ancestry:

Results with no background color

The results with no background color do not currently have a match with any other participant or fall into a probably/possibly related genetic distance. Until such time as additional markers are tested and the Genetic Distances fall into the 'Related' range, these participants must be considered unique lineages. 
The three other Haplogroups represented in the THORNTON Surname DNA Project include E, G, and J.