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As of 16 Feb, 2011, DYS 464x Results:
Kit N5410: 15c-15c-17c-17g
Kit 134428: 15c-15c-16c-16c-17c-17c
Kit 145178: 15c-15c-17c-17g
Kit N54638: 15c-15c-17c-17g
Kit 35874: 15c-15c-16g-17c
Kit 39244: 15c-16c-16g-17c
Kit 24394: 15c-15c-16g-17c
Kit 19920: 14c-15c-16g-17c
Kit 20007: 15c-15c-15c-15c
R-L21* 17-14-10 Group 1
These men have a repeat of 17 at marker 448;
a repeat of 14 at marker 456;
and a repeat of 10 at marker 450.
(also appears to have a values of 16 at 395S1a 22 at 413a and 13 at 617).
They are assumed to all be R-L21*, but not all of them have tested.
As of August 2011, five men have tested positive for SNP L371
R-L21* Cadwgon Group 2
From: JOHN PLUMMER (2010 edit by Susan Rosine)
Subject: [DNA] Welsh: 391=10, 385a=12,459a=10 etc: Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd, born 1016
Date: 20 Oct 2007
There are seven examples on ysearch of a distinctive type of R1b1b2 which can be identified with Welsh tribal patriarch Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. The DNA has differences showing that two branches are represented, believed to belong to two sons of Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. The traditional birthdate of Cadwgon is 1016 which seems reasonable as his son Gronwy was living in 1101.
All seven in the first 12 marker FTDNA panel have two differences from the modal: DYS 391 of 10 and DYS 385a of 12.
In the second FTDNA panel (markers 13-25) all seven have DYS 459a of 10, and DYS 448 of 18. DYS 464 is 15-16-16-17.
There are two distinctive markers in the next FTDNA panel (markers 26-37) All of the six with 37 markers tested have a value of 10 for GATA H4; and 16 for DYS 607.
The Miles/Collins branch of this family shares a value of 24 for DYS 447 and 20 or 21 for DYS 576. It was the Miles data that enabled the identification with Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd to be made. The Miles immigrant was a Welsh Quaker who went from Llanfanhangel Helygen, Radnorshire, Wales to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1684. This area in Wales between the Wye and the Severn was the tribal territory of the family of Elystan Glodrudd. Not only that, but the only Miles family in Volume 2 of The Development of Welsh Heraldry by Michael Powell Siddons was seated at Harpton, Old Radnor. There are only about 8 miles between Harpton and Llanfahangel Helygen where the immigrant Samuel Miles attended Quaker Monthly meeting. The Harpton Miles family descended from Hoedlyw, son of Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. Three of the seven of this family are Prices (one spelled Priest). If one checks the online surname profiler, the greatest concentration of Price is in Radnorshire. Checking Siddons, the Radnorshire Prices descend from Idnerth and Llewelyn, sons of Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. There is also a doubtful Price line from Hoedlyw. Hopefully still more of this prolific Welsh tribe will join the databases so we can make the identification rock solid and clarify the branchings. I might note that I have an every-generation-descent from Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd, but not in the male line. Probably every-generation-male-line-descents exist, or can be developed.
R-L21* Combo Group 3
These men have a repeat of 11 at marker 406s1 and a repeat of 13 at marker 617. (also appear to have value of 15 at DYS 19)
The Combo Cluster has different sub-clusters, including the "Ros Mascy Superfamily Modal" (y-search Q69ZC) and the "Wales Modal 3," which was defined by Robert Hughes (y-search KEFGX). As of August 2011, three of these men have tested positive for SNP L513.
R-L21* Mixed Surname Group 4
Pool, Powell, Stephens, Evans, Vaughan, Bryan. STRs are very close, even thought the surnames do not match. Further description coming soon.
---------------------------------------------
"TRUE" R-L21** KITS AS OF AUGUST 13, 2011
These men have tested negative for all "Deep Clade SNPs" now offered by FTDNA
They have not necessarily tested for all Advanced SNPs offered
8551
19920
35874
82983
101798
133866
145178
156191
159449
168439
--------------------------------------------
R-L21 "Advanced SNPs" currently offered
(As of 13 Aug 2011):
NEGATIVE (ancestral) for the SNP:
L9/L10
L69.4
L130 --kits N30554, N54638, 145178, 19920, 57993
L192.1 --kits N30554, N54638, 145178, 19920, 57993
L302/L319.1
L362
L371 --kits N16026, 103289, 115040, 159449, 177869, 179426, 18663, 19920, 41327, 43936, 99379
L513 --kits 145178, 19920, 41327
L526
L554
L555/557/561
L564
L577 --kit N54638
L580
L583
L627
L641/642
L643
L658
DF5 --kit N54638
DF21 --kit 19920
POSITIVE (derived) for the SNP:
L130 --kit
L192.1 --kit
L371 --kits 111398, 16717, 181160, 85661
L513 --kits N54638, 18663, 35601 (now on ISOGG 2011 tree)
L564 -kit 43525
DF5 --kit
DF 21 --kit 145178
-------------------------------------------------
Y-DNA Results Chart for Firefox Users , or click on the Y-DNA Results or mtDNA Results in the drop-down menu above.
DISCUSSION GROUP: Join the discussion of the Wales_Cymru DNA Project at Yahoo Groups: Click here
Please Note:
Kit N5410: 15c-15c-17c-17g
Kit 134428: 15c-15c-16c-16c-17c-17c
Kit 145178: 15c-15c-17c-17g
Kit N54638: 15c-15c-17c-17g
Kit 35874: 15c-15c-16g-17c
Kit 39244: 15c-16c-16g-17c
Kit 24394: 15c-15c-16g-17c
Kit 19920: 14c-15c-16g-17c
Kit 20007: 15c-15c-15c-15c
R-L21* 17-14-10 Group 1
These men have a repeat of 17 at marker 448;
a repeat of 14 at marker 456;
and a repeat of 10 at marker 450.
(also appears to have a values of 16 at 395S1a 22 at 413a and 13 at 617).
They are assumed to all be R-L21*, but not all of them have tested.
As of August 2011, five men have tested positive for SNP L371
R-L21* Cadwgon Group 2
From: JOHN PLUMMER (2010 edit by Susan Rosine)
Subject: [DNA] Welsh: 391=10, 385a=12,459a=10 etc: Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd, born 1016
Date: 20 Oct 2007
There are seven examples on ysearch of a distinctive type of R1b1b2 which can be identified with Welsh tribal patriarch Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. The DNA has differences showing that two branches are represented, believed to belong to two sons of Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. The traditional birthdate of Cadwgon is 1016 which seems reasonable as his son Gronwy was living in 1101.
All seven in the first 12 marker FTDNA panel have two differences from the modal: DYS 391 of 10 and DYS 385a of 12.
In the second FTDNA panel (markers 13-25) all seven have DYS 459a of 10, and DYS 448 of 18. DYS 464 is 15-16-16-17.
There are two distinctive markers in the next FTDNA panel (markers 26-37) All of the six with 37 markers tested have a value of 10 for GATA H4; and 16 for DYS 607.
The Miles/Collins branch of this family shares a value of 24 for DYS 447 and 20 or 21 for DYS 576. It was the Miles data that enabled the identification with Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd to be made. The Miles immigrant was a Welsh Quaker who went from Llanfanhangel Helygen, Radnorshire, Wales to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1684. This area in Wales between the Wye and the Severn was the tribal territory of the family of Elystan Glodrudd. Not only that, but the only Miles family in Volume 2 of The Development of Welsh Heraldry by Michael Powell Siddons was seated at Harpton, Old Radnor. There are only about 8 miles between Harpton and Llanfahangel Helygen where the immigrant Samuel Miles attended Quaker Monthly meeting. The Harpton Miles family descended from Hoedlyw, son of Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. Three of the seven of this family are Prices (one spelled Priest). If one checks the online surname profiler, the greatest concentration of Price is in Radnorshire. Checking Siddons, the Radnorshire Prices descend from Idnerth and Llewelyn, sons of Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd. There is also a doubtful Price line from Hoedlyw. Hopefully still more of this prolific Welsh tribe will join the databases so we can make the identification rock solid and clarify the branchings. I might note that I have an every-generation-descent from Cadwgon ap Elystan Glodrudd, but not in the male line. Probably every-generation-male-line-descents exist, or can be developed.
R-L21* Combo Group 3
These men have a repeat of 11 at marker 406s1 and a repeat of 13 at marker 617. (also appear to have value of 15 at DYS 19)
The Combo Cluster has different sub-clusters, including the "Ros Mascy Superfamily Modal" (y-search Q69ZC) and the "Wales Modal 3," which was defined by Robert Hughes (y-search KEFGX). As of August 2011, three of these men have tested positive for SNP L513.
R-L21* Mixed Surname Group 4
Pool, Powell, Stephens, Evans, Vaughan, Bryan. STRs are very close, even thought the surnames do not match. Further description coming soon.
---------------------------------------------
"TRUE" R-L21** KITS AS OF AUGUST 13, 2011
These men have tested negative for all "Deep Clade SNPs" now offered by FTDNA
They have not necessarily tested for all Advanced SNPs offered
8551
19920
35874
82983
101798
133866
145178
156191
159449
168439
--------------------------------------------
R-L21 "Advanced SNPs" currently offered
(As of 13 Aug 2011):
NEGATIVE (ancestral) for the SNP:
L9/L10
L69.4
L130 --kits N30554, N54638, 145178, 19920, 57993
L192.1 --kits N30554, N54638, 145178, 19920, 57993
L302/L319.1
L362
L371 --kits N16026, 103289, 115040, 159449, 177869, 179426, 18663, 19920, 41327, 43936, 99379
L513 --kits 145178, 19920, 41327
L526
L554
L555/557/561
L564
L577 --kit N54638
L580
L583
L627
L641/642
L643
L658
DF5 --kit N54638
DF21 --kit 19920
POSITIVE (derived) for the SNP:
L130 --kit
L192.1 --kit
L371 --kits 111398, 16717, 181160, 85661
L513 --kits N54638, 18663, 35601 (now on ISOGG 2011 tree)
L564 -kit 43525
DF5 --kit
DF 21 --kit 145178
-------------------------------------------------
Y-DNA Results Chart for Firefox Users , or click on the Y-DNA Results or mtDNA Results in the drop-down menu above.
DISCUSSION GROUP: Join the discussion of the Wales_Cymru DNA Project at Yahoo Groups: Click here
Please Note: